Episode 13 Podcast > Full Transcript
Nicole Witt, Intro:
Every five years, the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption commissions a survey called the Adoption Attitudes Survey, and it's about adopting older kids and teenagers from the foster care system. The results of the latest survey recently came out, and I think it's important to discuss them. So, for the purposes of this episode, we're going to put infant adoption aside and discuss foster adoption. In a previous episode, we discussed the differences between newborn adoption, international adoption and foster adoption. So, please feel free to go back and listen to that one first, if you want a primer on the pros and cons of each before we dig into today's topic.
To help me review the report results, my guest today is Rita Soronen, President and CEO of the Dave Thomas Foundation of Adoption. For more than 30 years, Rita has worked on behalf of abused, neglected and vulnerable children.
Leading the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption, a national nonprofit public charity since 2001, and the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption-Canada since 2004. Rita works to find adoptive families for the more than 150,000 children waiting in North America's foster care systems.
Rita is a nationally recognized child welfare advocate. She has testified before the U.S. House Ways and Means Committee on the importance of foster care adoption. She is also a requested national speaker on the topics of children, the child welfare system and social innovation.
Nicole:
Thank you so much for taking the time and to discuss the results of this important survey.
Rita Soronen:
Absolutely. Nicole, I'm delighted to be with you. Thank you.
Nicole:
In the interest of full transparency, the foster care system and foster adoption is outside the realm of my area of expertise. So, you're going to have to help me through this a little bit. From what I read in the survey results, there seem to be three main areas for us to discuss which are common myths, teens aging out of the system and attitudes towards adoption. Is that correct?
Rita:
Yeah, and there's lots and lots of information woven into all of that. Absolutely. And if anybody is interested in seeing the full report, they can go to our website, davethomasfoundation.org and find that full report and all of the statistics behind it.
Nicole:
Excellent. Excellent. Okay. So, let's start with some of the common myths. What is the most commonplace myth out there about foster adoption?
Rita:
So, I think one of them (Well, there's really a couple) that it's going to be really expensive to adopt. And we still see that in the survey that expense is one of those issues that Americans have as a, perhaps, barrier to considering foster care adoption. And here's what we know, particularly as you think about all of the forms of adoption; infant adoption, international adoption, and then foster care adoption. Those first two (domestic infant and international) can come with some fairly hefty price tags for all the right reasons; travel attorney fees, private agency fees, sometimes supporting the birth mom. All of those things can be fairly expensive.
When someone's thinking about adopting from foster care, the reality is these children are in the custody of the state or the county, and so they cover the majority of those costs, even when it comes to matching a child with a family and moving that child to adoption with a family who adopts out of foster care. So, there's literally no to very small expenses. So, what we say is zero to maybe 1000. And what that that expense may be is the cost of a home study and those kinds of things.
And with foster care adoption, really about 90% or more of the children are there because they're deemed by legal definition special needs. And that doesn't just mean emotional or physical special needs, it means by virtue of age and the foster care system. But those children who are most likely to linger, they're deemed special needs. And so, for those children, subsidies follow those children until they're 18, after they're adopted. And many states have other kinds of assists. Some states have education waivers for secondary education. So, there are lots of ways to dispel that myth that it's too expensive to adopt out of foster care.
Another one is that I think there is a fear of the parents, the biological parents, coming back to legally claim these children. And again, that can't happen. When someone adopts from foster care, that child has already been legally through the courts, permanently separated from the family of origin. That family no longer has any legal claims to the child. And so, they can't come back and take the family to court and say, “We want our child back.”
Having said that, I think it's important to consider that, particularly when thinking about older children, and that doesn't just mean teens, but children that remember their family; where they came from and are still dealing with grief and loss. There are many family members who absolutely can safely be a part of that child's life. And so, the adoptive parent may want to consider how they can facilitate those interactions and those connections and keeping those connections vibrant.
Nicole:
Excellent, great points. Thank you. I imagine there are also myths about the characteristics of the children themselves who are in foster care, correct?
Rita:
There are. And one that just tends to really nod at me; this has stayed fairly consistent over the number of years that we've done this survey is there is a large misperception about why children are in foster care. We know that 51% of Americans believe children are there because they're juvenile delinquents; that's the phrase that they use. In other words, they've done something wrong when nothing could be farther from the truth. Children go into foster care because they've been abused, because they have been abandoned or neglected. And it takes a significant process for the courts to then terminate parental rights; to separate legally that child from parent.
And so, the parent or the child is experiencing grief and loss and the trauma, not only of the abuse of why they came into care, but sometimes those children move frequently while they're in care. And so, additional trauma, additional experiences while in foster care. And so, there may be some behaviors that that child experiences or exhibits, there may be some challenges that they have. But again, it's not because they've done something wrong that the court has said, oh – This isn't juvenile court. This is a place for a child to be safe and a place for a child, hopefully, to move to an adoptive family. And again, nothing could be further from the truth if folks think that these children are too old, too damaged, too dangerous to live in a family.
Nicole:
Yeah, that's a really tragic myth that's out there. So, I'm glad to have the opportunity to start to dispel that. What about myths related to qualifications for adoptive parents?
Rita:
Yeah. And you know, we ask, “What do you think constitutes a healthy family?” And we still have some barriers in thinking that a healthy family is one that has a two-parent family that are younger, that have extraordinary resources to support that family. And again, in foster care adoption, single parents can adopt, older families can adopt. So, a family perhaps that has already raised children, biological children, still has room in their heart, in their homes, and they would love to bring a child into their family, can adopt. Same sex couples can adopt. You know, there is certainly across religions, there are folks can adopt and across races. And so, really how we think about the diversity of families can reflect the wonderful children who are in foster care, who simply need a family.
And I think we're beginning to see some better sense of that. But there's still some large barriers there as we perceive what is a viable family versus really what's a healthy, vibrant, supportive family for a child.
Nicole:
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Any other myths you want to talk about before we move on to the next topic?
Rita:
I think those – we go through and we ask, “How many children do you think are in foster care? How many children do you think age out of foster care?” Those are tough numbers for people to get a grasp on and we still don't have a solid sense. So, it's good to know the baseline statistics. Right now, in the United States, there are about 410,000 children in foster care. Hopefully, the majority of those children will go back home. The idea is to make sure that the family of origin is safe and supported and has all the resources that they need to rear their children. But for about 117,000 children right now, today, those homes were could not be made safe. Those families could not support that child. And so, 117,000 children are waiting to be adopted.
And then each year, of those children who are waiting to be adopted, about 15-, depending on the year, 15- to 20000 children, turn 18 and leave foster care without a family. So, it's good to get a sense, I think, in our communities, in our states and across the nation, what is the depth of this situation? And we simply track this; what do people believe about the numbers of kids in care in all of these statistics, so that we can make sure that we're doing a better job at really setting the table of, here is the situation in this country. Now, what can we do to address it?
Nicole:
Yeah. And I think that's a good segue into the next topic as far as teens aging out of the system. And I saw in the report that many, many adults in the US are wary of adopting teenagers and they don't, I think, realize sort of the implications of what happens when a teen age is out of the system. Could you please speak to that a little bit more?
Rita:
Of course. We ask, “If you're considering adopting, what's your age preference?” And there's still a large default to children age five and younger. 60% of Americans have stated that they would prefer to adopt a child age five or younger. And we celebrate all kinds of adoptions; make no mistake, I think any time a family comes together, whether it's an infant adoption domestically or an international adoption, typically with an infant, we celebrate that because we believe every child deserves a family.
But for the foster care situation, when the average age of a child waiting to be adopted in foster care is about eight and a half, then we know that we've got a lot of kids that are waiting to be adopted, that if we still have a strong preference for toddlers or babies, then we've got a large barrier at making sure that those children can be adopted. And we know that again, when we ask the reverse age, only 3% would prefer to adopt a child age 13 or older. So, those are really strong disparities about we've got older children in care, they deserve a family as much as any other child does and yet we've got a default, even out of foster care, to younger children.
So, I think, again, it's about, for us and others, continuing to do a much stronger job at who are these children, why are they in care, what are their ages, and how can you find all of the supports that you might need, if suddenly you're thinking about, “Well, I could bring a teenager into my life, but I've got these challenges. What will I do to pay for college? How will I support that child who has extended family members that they may want to stay connected to? How will I deal with any behavioral issues that do pop up?” And so, we need to do a much better job at making sure that folks understand the kinds of supports that are available, the kinds of issues that could happen. But the notion that every child, every child deserves a family, no matter their age, their journey through foster care, how they identify themselves, any of those factors shouldn't disqualify a child for a family.
Nicole:
And the Dave Thomas Foundation does provide a lot of that support and training for those families, correct?
Rita:
We do. Through agencies that we contract with, we have a signature program called Wendy’s Wonderful Kids. And we provide grants to organizations across the nation to hire full-time adoption professionals who carry caseloads of the longest waiting children in their community. So, typically, these are older youth, of course, or children in sibling groups or children with physical or emotional needs. And then we provide the training for those professionals. And those professionals make sure that when they connect with potential adoptive families that they're providing them the whole menu of resources and support and understanding and training so that that family can feel comfortable adopting that child. So, we have an arm's length relationship with families who adopt, but it's through this Wendy's Wonderful Kids program that, yes, we provide training and resources. And on our website, all kinds of resources for families that are interested, including a Beginner's Guide to Adoption. What steps can you imagine? What are the steps that happen in the foster care system in order to become a foster parent, in order to become a foster parent to adopt, in order to simply become an adoptive parent from the foster care system.
Nicole:
Great. Great. And for the teens who do age out of the system, what are the prospects for them? How does their future tend to play out?
Rita:
Not to continue with any kind of negative sheen over these kids. But the reality is, if a child leaves foster care at age 18 without a family, here's what they don't have. They don't have a safety net of a family. So, if they make a mistake, if they run out of rent, if their car breaks down, if their job is eliminated, they don't have every opportunity to say, “Hey, mom, can I come back home for a while until I can pick myself back up and I can get re-established?” They don't have a home to go to. And so, children who age out of foster care are much more likely to have negative consequences like homelessness, underemployment, unemployment, under education, frequently become early parents. Not that that in and of itself is a bad thing, but without that support network around them can be challenging. Much more likely to fall back into systems from which they came. And not because these are bad kids, but because they don't have that supportive safety net around them that every other family that has an 18 year old or a 25 year old or sometimes a 30 year old who simply needs to reconnect with family for a minute in order to get that support that they need to then march forward again.
So, for us at the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption, it's really unacceptable that 20,000 children leave foster care without a family every year. And that's why we not only do this research, but provide the other programs like these wonderful kids that makes it an aggressive and urgent effort, making sure that no child ages out of foster care.
Nicole:
Right. And then moving on to the third key topic, this study showed that attitudes towards foster adoption remain positive. Can you speak to exactly what came out?
Rita:
Yeah. And we've seen a really, really good uptick in those numbers. I mean, a statistically significant uptick. And just start with just general consideration of adoption. 37% of Americans have considered adoption of all forms. And that's an uptick of 12 percentage points. That's huge. So, adoption is now really robust in the conversation of Americans. But of those who have considered adoption, 82% have considered foster care adoption. So, it's part of their conversation when years and years ago, that wasn't the case. And that's an uptick of three percentage points.
67% of Americans believe that every child is adoptable, even though we have children aging out of care, a majority of Americans believe every child is adoptable. And that's an uptick of nine percentage points.
Nicole:
Oh, wow.
Rita
And 75% believe that we should be doing more. We, the collective we; all of us should be doing more to encourage foster care adoption. That's an increase of 11 percentage points. So, really significant. And it's been five years, but these are some of the broadest, I think, increases that we've seen since we've been doing this survey since 2001. So, that's really good news. I think not only our messages are getting across, but the conversation is much more robust across this country.
And in fact, you know, 30% are favorable; they have a favorable opinion about the foster care system. We'd like that to be a lot higher. And yet, if you dig deeper into the research, you see that 75% say we should be doing more again to encourage foster care adoption. So, we want to make sure that that these numbers jive, in terms of what the messages are that folks are hearing and the reality about the system.
And I misspoke a little bit. So, 30% are favorable about the foster care system, but 50% are favorable toward foster care adoption. So, the system is the barrier sometimes; how will I jump into a government system? Will I get returned phone calls? Will it be complicated? Too much paperwork, too much bureaucracy. And indeed, there's a lot of that, but there's a lot of that, I think, in any kind of adoption. But I think the foster care system, because we tend to hear negative stories about it, then I think sometimes that's a barrier for folks who are thinking about foster care.
Nicole:
And you mentioned of the people considering adoption. You mentioned that more than 80% are considering foster care adoption. And I saw in the report that actually almost all of those people, almost 90%, are seriously considering foster care adoption. Is that a significant increase over the past?
Rita:
It is. It is an increase. And again, I think our challenge is moving that consideration to action. And that's the path that the Dave Thomas Foundation for Adoption has been on for the 30 years that we've been in existence. When we first started, it was a lot about just raising awareness and public service announcements and increasing the conversation. But we move to programs like Wendy's Wonderful Kids because we finally said we have to move from talk to action. So, I think this parallels that everybody has to make decisions for themselves; what is best for my family. And foster care adoption isn't best for everyone's family.
But for those who are really seriously considering it, what can we do to assist to get them to that next stage of actually moving toward contacting an agency, beginning the process of learning about foster care adoptions, the dynamics of abuse and neglect, getting a home study done and getting matched with the child. So, yes, it's a significant increase. But now we want to see those numbers of older youth aging out of foster care decrease significantly as well.
Nicole:
Right. Right. Well, thank you so much, Rita, for sharing all of that eye opening information and for all the important work that you and your colleagues do. Before we wrap up, is there anything else you would like to add about foster adoption or the Dave Thomas Foundation?
Rita:
Just keeping Dave Thomas is our founder. We were founded by Dave Thomas, the founder of The Wendy's Company. He was adopted as an infant and understood this notion of adoption. And every day, we echo his quote that these children are not someone else's responsibility. There are responsibility. And that notion of collective community responsibility, if it's not the right time to foster or adopt, there are so many things that folks can do; they can volunteer, they can mentor, they can connect with an adoption agency in their community and provide financial assistance. I think everybody can take ownership of this cause of making sure that every child has a safe, nurturing and permanent home. And again, if folks want to learn more about us or get resources and reach out to us, the best source is davethomasfoundation.org.
Nicole:
Great. Yeah. And I think as a society, there are few things we can do that are more important than that. So, thank you so much for speaking to that and for sharing this most current information with us.
Again, my guest today has been Rita Soronen, President and CEO of the Dave Thomas Foundation of Adoption. And you can reach her through their website or through her assistant, Marissa, at (614) 764 8454.